‘Mass walkout’ in Zejtun as Church intensifies fear campaign

Several parishioners walked out of Mass at the Zejtun parish church last Saturday, after a priest threatened to withhold sacraments from those who vote ‘Yes’ in the May 28 divorce referendum.

CLARIFICATION This report was amended at 3:11pm, because of its erroneous reference to Fr Ang Seychell. MaltaToday was in contact with Fr Seychell, who confirmed the priest in question was not him but another priest. The error is regretted and MaltaToday apologises for mistake. Fr Ang Seychell has confirmed the content of the article is as reported.

“If there are any of you planning to vote ‘yes’ to divorce, don’t expect to come here the day after and receive Holy Communion,”a priest warned his congregation during the 5:30pm mass… whereupon a number of people stood up and walked out of Church altogether.

It is understood that last Saturday’s was an unprecedented reaction to the otherwise predictable message: leading observers to question whether the hardliner attitude adopted by the Church in recent weeks may be backfiring.

And while the Zejtun walkout may have been an isolated incident, there have been several other symptoms of disenchantment among Catholics at an apparent steeling of the Church’s campaign rhetoric in recent days.

The Curia has in fact intensified its efforts in the past week, as evidenced by Gozo Bishop Mgr Mario Grech’s homily last Sunday, during a mass celebrating the confirmation of a number of teenagers in Victoria.

Grech took the opportunity to lash out at what he described as “brigands” and “wolves in sheeps’ clothing” who would “lead the flock astray”: widely interpreted as a reference to a recently-formed group of pro-divorce lay Catholics.

“Today they are after divorce. Tomorrow they will want other things too,” Mgr Grech warned, adding that people who were not loyal to Catholic beliefs should not call themselves either Catholics or Christians.

“Otherwise it would be a farce,” he said.

Reacting to Bishop Grech’s homily, the group in question - Catholics: Yes Because It’s A Right – deplored the open hostility shown towards them by the Gozo Bishop.

“It is with deep regret for us as Catholics that our brother made recourse to such language about his Catholic brothers and sisters. Such language falls short of Christian charity and does not consider with respect and wisdom the position of Catholics like us,” spokesman Carmel Hili said yesterday.

“Catholics who will be voting yes will not be declaring themselves in favour or against divorce as a matter of moral or religious legitimacy,” hili added. “They are only recognising the State’s duty to legislate for all its citizens, irrespective whether they are Catholics or not. This is in line with the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teachings of our Holy Mother Church.”

Separately, the Moviment IVA campaign has also raised the alarm over allegations of  “intimidation” and “coercion” by individuals involved in religious organizations, especially targeting the elderly.

Campaign manager Michael Falzon said yesterday that people affiliated with religious organisations are “abusing of their position” by attempting to scare vulnerable citizens into voting ‘No’.

“Elderly people in care homes are being told that divorce will mean that government will have to spend so much that it will not afford to pay their pensions,” Falzon said.

Both he and Labour MP Evarist Bartolo said they had been approached separately by various sources, including relatives of the elderly people in question. They confirmed that the intimidation was taking place in Msida care homes by individuals affiliated with the M.U.S.E.U.M organization, among others.

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The broader our understanding of life and the universe in which we live, the LOUDER we can hear our CONSCIENCE. . The narrower and tighter our awareness of life and the universe in which we live, the more likely we are to seek ADVICE about moral matters from external authorities. . The hollow voice of the external authority acts as an artificial life support for those people without a conscience.
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This same priest at Tal Mirakli Lia, Wednesday evening at the 5.30 pm mass started talking again against the divorce issue........something that is purely civic matter. No Thanks.....i do not want to go to church to be brainwashed. ALL THOSE ( Fidili ) who are voting IVA must have the BALLS to stand up and walk out right under his pulpit just like i did last Sunday at the same church.
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The problem in this country is that Maltese take extreme sides on an issue. Either it's all good or all bad. The divorce issue has now become a farce and it seriously reflects the level of maturity of thinking amongst many of the people in this country. Many of those against or in favour of divorce have taken that position for the wrong reasons! I bet you that no one, I repeat NO ONE, marries with the intention of divorcing. Those in favour of a divorce LEGISLATION, like me, certainly do not want to make use of this law...but sometimes things happen and when things happen, the State is morally and ethically obliged to find the best, not PERFECT, remedies for these people. It's as simple as that!
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Il farsa tafu x'inhi? Li alla jbierek is sagrament tas Sacerdozju jinhall..... is sagrament taz zwieg le! L-ikbar ipokresija li qatt rajt. Mela bl-istess principju huma mhux ukoll "iz-zewgu" ma Alla?? Allura kif qassis jista jinhall minn dak is sagrament u xi haga li tigieh veru hazina fiz zwieg ma jistax? U minn jaghid li ma johorgux minn qassisin bl-ghaggla ma tantx nemminha ghax jiena personali naf b'zewg qassisin li hargu u il gurnata ta' llum mizzewgin! Iva l-istess tnejn minn nies li minn jaf kemm semaw dnubiet tan nies. L-istess nies li hafru dnubiet taw assoluzzjonijiet, ikkonsagraw u qarbnu! Allura dawk ghadhom jistaw jitqarbnu? Fl-ahhar mill ahhar Id Divorzju huwa xi haga tall-istat mhux tall knisja.... U x'qed jahsbu li min hu imqazzez u imdejjaq ha jibqa hemm dan kollhu ghax huma qed jaghidulnha hekk? U fuq kollox kif jistaw qatt jitkellmu meta ma jafux x'jigifieri zwieg?
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Dan il-qassis qatt ma sema' bil-kliem li qal Gesu meta kien jippriedka? Min hu bla htija jitfa' l-ewwel gebla....Tikkundannax ghax tkun ikkundannat....dawk il-qassisin li abbuzaw minn dawk it-tfal.... dawk qarbnuhom??? nispera li nidmu sew ghall-azzjonijiet li ghamlu... nispera, pero nerga nghid mhux fil-kompitu ta hadd li jiggudikhom... dak inhallieh f'idejn il-Hallieq! Dan l-ghagir drastiku juri haga wahda biss fl-opinjoni tieghi... m'hawnx fiducja fi zwieg ghal dejjem! li kieku ma jtuhx daqshekk importanza d-divorzju... wara kollox din tad-divorzju qabza fid-dlam, nahseb daqskemm huwa z-zwieg qabza fid-dlam zgur mhux id-divorzju. Min tigih tajjeb, min le jiddispjacini irid imut ghadu mizzewweg (ghax anke jekk forsi sseparat, xorta ghadek mizzewweg) mal-persuna li ilek ma tara min jaf kemm! bad luck hux... daqshekk jimpurthom!!! so sad but true
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Maltese clerical authority and power has recently been experiencing a number of sesmic tremors, reminiscent to the ‘First Estate’ of the Ancien Régime in eighteenth-century France, were throne and altar were commonly spoken of as in close alliance. In time, this led from a struggle against despotism and religion, and a rejection of the primacy of religious authority in the affairs of the world, towards the secularization and emancipation of the human consciousness, that leads to increased levels of secularity in belief, behaviour and belonging among the populace.
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Din ta min jigi imsawwat biss qedin tghidu !!... Ma tarawx x'jigri barra? Lewwel jizzewgu bl-addocc u imbadd jiddevorzjaw ax imsieken saru jafu li ma jaqblux..... id-divorzju jista jigi uzat anke minn dawk li al raguni bla sens iridu jitilqu lil mara..... u tghidulix li qeda nharref meta nghid li il-persuna tkun taf x'inhi minn qabel iz-zwieg.... jekk il-mahbub/a tieghek tixrob jew possessiva... tistennix li wara zwieg ha jitranga kollox... meta tizzewweg trid taccetta il-persuna li tkun inghaqqad maghha..... iz-zwieg naf li hu pass kbir u bhekk dawk li jahsbu li z-zwieg mhux ser jirnexxi, li forsi ha jibda jsawwattni, li jixrob wisq, li hu possessiv wisq... GHALIEX TIZZEWWEG!!!.....Biex ixxejjer ic-curkett f'ghajn in-nies??!!!... jien naf nies li huma vicin tieghi li sfortunatament spicca iz-zwieg tahhom...imma dejjem kienu jafu mill-bidu... huma stess jammettu imma ghadsu rashom u xorta zzewgu..... allura hekk sew?..... min jamel dan l-isball isib ghajnuna.... jien in-nhoss ghal-dawn in-nies, imma jien irrid li z-zwieg jibqa b'sahhtu u mhux li b'karta jitkisser kollox
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Isimghu mill habiba taghna Marija... Tiddivorzjawx ghax iddajfu is-socjeta. Hudu pacenzja, jekk kontu sfortunati u z-zwieg spicca issaportu sakemm tmutu. Jekk x'kumbinazzjoni r-ragel isawwatkom, tiddivorzjawx ... ghax iddajfu s-socjeta, issaportu sakemm tmutu ... l-option hi li jew tisseparaw u tibqaw izolati mis socjeta ghall hajjitkom JEW tissaportu... filkas ghidu ir-ragel ma jsawwatkomx quddiem it-tfal. Jien ragel mizzewweg u ghal grazzja t'Alla ma ghadnix bzonn divorzju s'issa imma il quddiem hadd ma jista jghid ... allura jekk fil kaz ma jghaddix u jkolli bzonnu immur mal mara u niddivorzjaw il-Germanja. Min ma jaffordjax, jiddispjacini ghalieh, pero se nivvota IVA.
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Ara vera hawn nies lli jgeluk tidhak.... mela ghax il-Knisja thalli lil persuna taghzel it-triq taghha u ma tissikkajiex tgergru ghax tghidu li hu religjon dghajjef u jekk tissikka naqa tgergru ukoll....Jien personalment addejt minn zmien fejn ir-religjon li allmuni il-genituri tieghi iddubitajtu imma wara hafna hsieb u argumenti mieghi innifsi ghidt li l-ahjar triq hi dik li nkun Kristjana.... issa hadd mhu perfett, lanqas jien m'jien perfetta u allura niehdu zbalji. DAn ma jfissirx li ghax hadna zball irridu nkomplu naxquha.... Inthom ghalxiex tizzewgu?? Iz-Zwieg u rabta ma persuna ohra li int thobb u tirrispetta. Jien meta kont zghira tghallimt li L-BAZI TA' SOCJETA` HIJA IL-FAMILJA u JEKK IL-FAMILJA HI SODA U STABBLI, IS-SOCJETA` HI SODA U STABBLI!!!. Id-divorzju li qed jigi ipproponut huwa divorzju bla raguni... u tmerunix u tghiduli li mhux vera.....plus... Dawk tal- IVA ghad-divorzju jghidu li d-divorzju hu ghal min qed ibati.....imma id-divorzju jista jigi uzat ukoll ghal min jghid ..ara xbajt mal-mahbub tieghi u allura nitilqu.... Billi il-pajjizi barranin ghandhom id-divorzju...mexjin il-quddiem?.. allura irridu nikkupjawhom??.... Id-divorzju dejjem ha jdajjef ir-rabta tal-Familja ghax jekk id-divorzju jghaddi, kull koppja li tizzewweg dejjem ha tikkunsidra id-divorju, li hi t-triq il-hafifa, meta jinqala xi tizgwid bejniethom..... Imbad b'hekk tkunu tistu taharbu mir-responsabbilta` hafif hafif.... Kull Religjon ghandu l-ligijiet...anke il-kristjanezmu.. allura tghidux li inthom kristjani jekk ma taqblux. Nixtiq nghid lil kulhadd li T-TRIQ IL-HAFFIFA MHUX DEJJEM TKUN DIK IT-TAJBA u KUNU RESPONSABBLI GHAL EMILKOM!!!!
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dawk li jridu lil haddiehor biex ipoggu , huma nies mill-ghar , ghajjurin, u flokk demm ghnadhom valenu, sabiex fl-ghira kolha li ghnadhom (ghal diversi ragunijiet) ikollhom status (Imma status biss ta) minghalihom ahjar min ta dawk li huma pogguti. Dawk huma tal-LE- dawk li fi triq dejjem izezzzku fuq -hadiehor- jaqq ghnadom dwejjaq fuqhom Yeahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa , jien qatt ma kont poggut, imma jien nghix hajti, hallini bi kwiet, u nhallik bi kwiet Freedom is to who wants it, who wants to be a slave ,that is he own affair :)
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Jista xi hadd ifemni kif tista tghid li qed titkellem f'isem il KELMA T'ALLA u tghid IVA BIEX TPOGGI u LE GHAD DIVORSJU ?
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Is-Sur Piccinino mid-dehra jemen li hu kattolikua aktar minn haddoehor ghax jibla bla ma jahseb b'mohhu dak kollu li tghid il-Kurja Maltija !
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well a good picture to laugh is to see them in those ridicolous clothes, what about pope ratzinger when he weared those red shoes :) Well to me luckily nothing wrong, cause I from always did not liked them, even that as a tradition here every one used to be sent to Muzew and than *pracett* than *grizma *, they had to stay guard that i stay there, If not i go play with my friends:) From always I did not liked them, black dress with white collar:) ahhahah when i was young they used to send us boys to confess , not first time one of my friends during confession, the priest pull his ear lollllllll, stil remember.or hearing adults in the streets talking about a certain priest who had children,or one that likes children or what happened to all that gold that the people used to give to their hometown patron. well enough:)
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The film I referred in an earlier post is JUNIOR starring Arnold Schwarzenegger. Sorry the name of the film kept disappearing from the text.
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the catholic church has failed itself by living in the past; i think it will win this battle on divorce, but by so doing it will lose more and more followers. Divorce is inevitable, and the sooner the church realises that, the less damage it will do to itself.
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@ picci ninu Mela għax titkellem tmur kontra l-liġi issa? Insejt li fi zmien uncle gonzi - dan kien jhedded li min kien jaqra l-helsien kien jaghmel dnub? Huwa mmorali li twerwer lix-xjuh li minhabba l-eta' taghhom huma fragli bl-infern - xi haga li hadd ma jista' jipprova li jezisti, inkluz int. Ahjar taghmel ftit mazzri u torbothom m'ghonq min ta' skandlu lit-tfal. Tista' tmur tipprotesta ma shabek li ghattew dawn l-iskandli ghal tant snin ma dwar id-dinja kollha.
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[email protected] I am not acquainted with the priests in question but I fully uphold your views. In fact name dropping needs to be avoided as much as possible. The debate is about the church's bureaucracy Vs civic freedoms.
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Well not unless you’re Arnold Schwarzenegger starring in the film
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duncan abela
I think many persons who jumped to the wrong conclusions and wrote derogatory comments owe an apology to Dun Ang. We must never rush to judgement and should cross check statements before rushing into print. This also applies to journalists who have an added responsibility. As this divorce issue hots up and reaches a frenzy we must also be careful not to instrumentalise individuals and use them as tools. Both Dun Ang and Fr Charles Vella unfortunately were wrongly used and abused. Liberals must be in the forefront in respecting human dignity and divergent views as long as such views are honest and not intended to mislead or mischaracterise as when they are partof a misinformation strategy.
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Falzonsilvio ~ I’m not denying that finding the right balance - between respecting other people’s views and expressing your own - can be very tricky especially if hurt is involved. For those of us who have been deeply hurt by the church, it’s hard to keep one’s anger for the church under control. I don’t think we ought to suppress our anger, however. It’s not healthy. Perhaps, we need to find some outlet for it, such as this blog, plus laughing at their clownish antics. . Personally, I wouldn’t approach a member of the clergy to show them how angry I am. I’m reflecting that if I’m still angry with them, then they still have a hold on me. . Their threats, emotional blackmail and exclusion are a form of bullying. It’s immature and irresponsible behaviour. . And yes TJ Ebb, I agree. The sad bottom line is that the church’s interference with marriage, contraception and divorce is all to do with the desperate need to maintain its earthly kingdom. She needs innocent and trapped men and women to reproduce for her as she herself is barren. Well not unless you’re Arnold Schwarzenegger starring in the film
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Then they wonder why Mass attendances are dwindling!
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I did say that I was surprised that Dun Ang as I know him as more balanced and practices what he preaches. Glad that you have been cleared of this "back to the sixties" approach by the cobwebs still found in the local Church hierarchy.
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If only the church took the same hardline and zero tollerence for pedophile priests than it would be seen to be more credible. But the difference in approach to both the divorce and perdophile issues uncover the mask as to who really are wolves in sheep's clothing!! What a bunch of hipocrates and bigots. The collective ego of the institution has taken over completely the local catholic church. It's about survival of the institution and not about the love and compassion.
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Joseph Sant
It did appear to me rather incongruous that Fr Seychell would have acted this way, since like I wrote earlier he himself was victim of ostracism in the 60s for his political leanings. I must say therefore that I am overjoyed to learn it was not him. However I stand by what I said earlier that the Zejtun priest's behviour, whoever he was, is reprehensible and repulsive - and in my view, also illegal.
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carmel duca
I have called Fr Angelo Seychell to apologise for erroneously identifying him as the priest whose sermon prompted a walk-out from mass in Zejtun. The error, which is indeed very much regretted, arose from my own misinterpretation of reports received from people present. On his part Fr Seychell separately confirmed the incident - adding that it was a 'general walkout' - but stressed that he himself was not the priest concerned. I am very sorry for all incovenience caused, and would like to extend this apology also to our readers whom I have unintentionally misled.
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Ghalfejn jizzewgu mal-ewwel biex imbaghad anqas taddi sena u jitilqu lil xulxin? Il-valuri telqu lura, il-bahar, kull min joqghod imur jibla l-ostja u jati fuq sidru fil-Gimgha il-Kbira u joqghod iwezaq u jibki fid-Duluri u ha jmorru jivvotaw Iva ghad-Divorzju? Ara veru pupazzi tal-partit, u pajjiz injorant, ara biss tghidu li intom Kristjani, komplu dahku u oqghodu wehlu fil-Knisja biex tidru sbieh intom, kummidjanti.
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Rayman Jumbo
Ayotallah Seychell should be encouraged to talk and preach the way he did becuase thanks to his attitude, more and more people are realising that a person can build a personal relationship with God without the need to have Fanatic Clergymen in Fancy Robes as middlemen. God is about love, respect and dignity not Shariya Law as the Maltese Chruch is now trying to impose.
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Joseph Sant
@piccinino - le siehbi lanqas xejn mi tniggizni l-kuxjenza. Tniggizni l-kuxjenza li kieku qed nghawweg il-fatti u nhallat haga m'ohra jew qed nipprova nbezza' lil xi hadd bl-infern u ddannazzjoni. U nerga nghidlek, iva jekk tikkastiga lil xi hadd jew thedded li tiggastiga lil xi hadd b'mod temporali jew spiritwali minhabba kif ivvota jew biex tinfluwenzah kif jivvota huwa corrupt practice skond il-Ligi Elettorali ta' Malta. Issa jekk din il-ligi ma toghgbokx, ghamel referendum u nehhiha!
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well yes, but, if it was my newspaper, I will not let him write articles, ( I mean a page for himself every week or so) he can write to answer yes other articles , or write in people's opinion area ,like we do here, but not give him a blog , like for example, raphael, matthew,james and the others,that what I meant, well every one has the right for his opinion yes, and to agree and not to agree, that is right. But After what he said in his mass, :“If there are any of you planning to vote ‘yes’ to divorce, don’t expect to come here the day after and receive Holy Communion,” Fr Seychell , That was rude, so I will rude to him. well all different opinions
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@ nikooo1 Mela għax titkellem tmur kontra l-liġi issa? kemm qed ibeżżgħahom dan il-kliem? Jaqaw qed tniggiżkom il-kuxjena għax kif jgħidu l-verita tweġġa? Jekk ma joġgħbokx tagħtix każ imma ħalli l-ħaddieħor jitkellem. Min hu favur id-divorzju taf għalfejn ma beżżax għax qed jibni l-kampanja tiegħu fuq kliem sabiħ u li meta tqabblu mar-realta' f'pajjiżi oħra tinduna li ma għandux bażi ta' xejn imma kollu kliem fieragħ.
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Joseph Sant
"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi che votate" This is the gist of Fr Seychell's message - Oh you who vote Yes are anathema and doomed to eternal damnation. For Fr Seychell never even mentions the possibility of reconciliation. Isn't it ironic that Fr Seychell would give absolution to a murderer and cover his crime under the mantel of confessinal secrecy but would refuse the sacraments to a bona fide Catholic for exercising the civil right to vote according to his conscience. Fr Seychell would have been right to some extent if he had said he would withhold the sacraments to a divorcee (though even that is questionable). But to make such a threat with respect to the right to vote is a corrupt practice in terms of law.... and Fr Seychell knows all about corrupt practices since he himself was a victim of them in the 60's.
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May I suggest that anyone who is forced to listen to Dun Ang and Co. comments report them to the police as this goes against the Electoral Law...
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I'm going back to 1965, at Mtarfa Hospital which in those days was a Military Hospital. I was there because I was pregnant and having problems, then out of the blue a Priest came in to give me Confession. He started the confession with "Who do you vote for?", and I said to him I am only 17 and I do not have a vote plus I am married to an Englishman in the Forces serving in Malta at the time. He then said he could not give me absolution because I said at the time I will support the Labour Party, and this he said was a sin against God. So they seem to be going back to the 1960's in their ways, they should let people decide for themselves what they want. I thought I would comment as this happened to me over 46 years ago. It scared the life out of me as I was very young at the time and expecting my first baby.
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To P. Vincenti - Gift of Life Family does not always equate with stability as you suggest. I don’t know of any one single family where there isn’t any strife. . You are deluding yourself if you think there is such a thing as the ideal family unit. . I do agree, however, some families are more stable than others. But the truth is we do not live in a perfect world. That in itself is bad enough without having to force everyone to live up to some ideal concocted by churchmen who themselves DO NOT experience this union. Yet, they have the audacity to act as marriage experts. . It all sounds like some secret society of lizards taking control over the affairs of other species.
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@ Giordano Bruno Kristu veru kien ikun fil-kumpanija tal-midinbin imma qatt ma qallhom li dak li qed jagħmlu mhuwiex dnub anzi kien jgħidilhom biex ma jidinbux aktar!
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Paul, Yes in fact we've heard of these guys. They are just exposing their views. Is that illegal in our country now also? Can you send families a menu each of what is good and what is not? You treat people like stupid idiots when you do one who should question himself who is really saying stupidities is You. Who made judge of morals in our country? You cannot and must judge anyone,especially those who are fighting for a better life!!! If you want to judge someone you should go infront of the Parliament building and start accusing those politicians who are breaking the families with their anti social policies, before you come here and start pointing your finger at those who are voting Yes. That is a divine right given by GOD, dear Paul!!!...Its called FREE WILL!!! If the Church or some fanatic does not agree with it, it is its own bloody business!!!!!!
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What is sad about the whole thing is that Christ is depicted as the good shepherd who left the 99 sheep to go and look for the lost one. These latter day Torquemadas are doing the opposite. Christ was always in the company of sinners to whom he showed love and mercy. The only time that Christ lost it was with the merchants at the temple. Has anybody heard of a priest taking on a merchant. Of course not, merchants have the silver.
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To the Nos – so according to you it is fine if a couple separates, obtains a civil or church annulment, co-habit, basically do everything else so long as it is not divorce. ‘Everything else’ is fine, fine, fine, will not break the family, or hurt the children, or cause hardships to the discarded spouse financially or emotionally, and all the rest. There is simply no basis to the arguments that divorce causes these sufferings and hardship: in truth they are caused by the actual breakdown of marriage even before separation. In a linear time frame, the divorce comes last certainly after the break-down and years of separation. So to attribute to divorce any breaking down of families is simply incorrect.
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Prosti Dun Ang. Xbajna nibilgħu l-ostja u nagħmlu li rridu. Fejnhom l-insara ta' veru issa. Fejnhom dawk li tant jgħajtu quddiem l-istatwi fil-festi tagħna. Kollox fil-vojt jekk imbaghad ma ngħixux kif jixtieqna Kristu. Ivvutaw iva skont il-kuxjenza, imma tivvota skont il-kuxjenza ma jfissirx li tagħmel kif tħoss, imma tara x'qed jgħidlek il-leħen ta' Alla f'qablek (Kuxjenza tfisser il-leħen ta' Alla f'qalbeK). Il-Knisja l-aktar li ser tmur tajjeb, għax ser jibqa fiha biss dawk li huma vera nsara u mhux qabda nsara ta' l-isem.
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Prosti Dun Ang. Xbajna nibilgħu l-ostja u nagħmlu li rridu. Fejnhom l-insara ta' veru issa. Fejnhom dawk li tant jgħajtu quddiem l-istatwi fil-festi tagħna. Kollox fil-vojt jekk imbaghad ma ngħixux kif jixtieqna Kristu. Ivvutaw iva skont il-kuxjenza, imma tivvota skont il-kuxjenza ma jfissirx li tagħmel kif tħoss, imma tara x'qed jgħidlek il-leħen ta' Alla f'qablek (Kuxjenza tfisser il-leħen ta' Alla f'qalbeK). Il-Knisja l-aktar li ser tmur tajjeb, għax ser jibqa fiha biss dawk li huma vera nsara u mhux qabda nsara ta' l-isem.
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P. Vincenti Today, 12:53 I doubt that many of you have ever heard of ‘CATHOLICS for CHOICE. Like this group in Malta, they believe they can be Catholic and atill be in favour of the choice to abort a baby. Have a look here, http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/ This anti-family group (Catholics: Yes because it’s a right) is attempting to camouflage itself as Catholic in an attempt to draw sympathy and votes from Catholics’ who are getting very confused. These are shameful tactics more at home in Maltese politics than in an issue of such fundamental importance to the family unit. JPO started this mess with his rants of being Catholic and in favour of divorce. This paper followed suit by publishing an article about a Catholic family in favour of divorce. As far as I am aware, authentic Catholics cannot be in favour of divorce or abortion. I think that the Bishop of Gozo is making this point clearly.
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@bidlafilgvern: What you seem to be saying is "Dun Ang is a good person, therefore he must be right". If so, I strongly disagree. I'm sure many a good person believed quite genuinely that the world was flat.
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The good thing about this divorce issue is that finally the church will clean itself of all these pseudo Catholic's that tarnish its image. And finally, when the divorce law is passed (If not in the next referendum, some time later), no one can chant out that Malta is a Catholic nation, as in reality it is not!
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Mark Fenech
Iridu jilgħabu mal-kuxjenza tagħna. Qabel kienu qalu li kulħadd għandu jmur jivvota skont il-kuxjenza nfurmata tiegħu. Meta raw lin-nies fil-maġġoranza baqgħu ta' l-istess opinjoni, allura żiedu d-doża. Nerġa ntenni Kristu qal li żewġ kmandamenti ta' lill-bniedem. L-ewwel - ħobb lil Alla - t-tieni jixbħu ħafna u kważi mportanti daqsu - ħobb lill-proxmu tiegħek bħalek innifsek. Aktar minn hekk ma hemm xejn. Ħalluna kwieti ħalli nivvutaw skont il-kuxjenza nfurmata tagħna.
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Is this guy for real? Is he representing the same Christ that I know? The Christ that preached so much love, tolerance and above all Humility? Why has the church parted so wildly from Christ's teachings and has become so arrogant? All it does today is condemn the gays, condemn the lesbians, condemn the cohabiting couples etc etc.For all I care he can keep his eucharist in a frame, but then don't come round with the 'sassla' collecting money either. Does he think we're still living in the sixties, trying to instill fear with the flames of hell? Dear Fr.Seychell, there is NO punishment, Christ himself said, 'If only you redeem, you will be saved.' There is no condemnation, you only condemn yourself if you want to, mark my words....
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FalzonSilvio wrote: “well ban him too, from writing in local newspapers. “ Allow me to disagree FalzonSilvio. Freedom of speech is very important. I agree with this quote from Voltaire. “I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it” . By the way I don't call myself an atheist. I just know that the true teachings were hijacked by the Council of Nicea in AD 325. Canon law and the enormous hierarchical bureaucracy that goes with it was a Roman fabrication. The rock upon which the church is built is there to squash the truth and to squash the people who live under it ... whilst hoodwinking them with some of the appealing aspects of Christianity. That’s why the Roman church constantly contradicts itself. If you have a look at http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm you will see how there is a sect (dotted green line) which has hung on to the original teachings. You need to scroll down the page. I think the information is reasonably reliable. I also think there are people (priests) who are genuine but blind. Same goes for people. But there are also those who will not budge – ever – and do not intend to budge - ever. I don’t waste my breathe on these types. We must all speak our own truth at the same time respect other’s people views. . Yet we must hold our ground and REFUSE to be silenced.
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@trollface People go to Church because they are Catholic and want to hear the word of God. People like you are convincing more and more people to vote against divorce because you and another handful of anti-clericals are intolerant and you are just showing your true colours.
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Why do people still go to church? :)
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The beginning of the end for this despicable organisation? Oh boy, I sure hope so. "lead the flock astray"? This is how the church regards the fools who follow it. A flock of sheep- and we all know how well a sheep thinks for itself.
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The church is going to lose a large number of catholics and this time around people will not go back to the fold. Once you lose them you lose them. Time to be careful on this issue and the Archbishop of Malta will do well to ensure this. The church should preach it's gospel and what is believe it is right, but not dictate or threaten the people who make up the church. To do otherwise is not the way to go. Let's not go back to the 1960's becuase this time around, it will be different. People will definitely not come back once they decide not to go back to church.
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that's right. VOTE WITH YOUR FEET
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I would have done the same (walk out of church) ... problem is that I believe that most of those who left will not be going in again (at least for a while)! JM has already hinted out about this grave situation where with this attitude, whatever the result would be, the main loser in this would be the Maltese church. I strongly believe this will probably end up in more civil marriages.
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Dik solidarjetà min-naha ta' Dun Ang ! Kemm kien ghaqli n-nannu meta kien jghid li s-solidarjetà li ssir bi flus haddiehor u li permezz taghha jiekol ukoll min ikun qieghed iwettaqha hija l-iktar wahda rhisa.
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I am sorry to hear that Dun Ang had to say this to his parishioners as I know him as more balanced and as bidlafilgvern said he practices what her preaches. The stance taken by the local Church on this issue is going to backfire on the Church and while it was challenged and disregarded by 51,000 voters when they voted for the PL in the 1960's and in the following election the number increased to more than 61,000 the same is going to happen today except that the number is going to be much greater, even if many will not vote. This will be also an affront for the church because those not voting will be sending the message that while they did not vote because of the threats made by the local Church they nevertheless choose not to support the local Church.
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I think, for fairness sake, that one ought also to highlight who Fr Angelo Seychell is. "Dun Ang" as he is known, is one of the foremost voices of the Left in the Maltese church. He regularly writes in newspapers in defence of the poor, of immigrants, of the dispossesed. He warns continuously of the dangers of globalisation and of the powr-hungry multinationals. He has given his home, his property, for the use of handicapped persons in Zejtun. In short, Fr Seychell has done sterling service to society, and to those whom society shuns and rejects. Once again, when facing the ballot box, all sense of proportion in Malta is lost. In this "black" and "white" scenario, where there is no place for any shade of meaning, we condemn and condone with no regard to the larger picture. I find this unfortunate. It is for this reason that I will abstain from this referendum.
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Marriage to me is holy and it is therefore a sacrament. I understand that the Catholic church not only upholds this statement but it does its best to ensure that it is the fulcrum of marriage within Christianity. What I can not understand is why the Catholic church or some of its members have decided to downplay the Catholic Churchs' catechism by attempting to prevent another state or its members from accepting civil divorce. Civil divorce should be made available to its members as per para2383. Only non-believers or victims of null but undecided marriages will ever revert to civil divorce for protection or as a remedy. As a Catholic I am therefore not worried about civil divorce. On the other hand there are many other things in todays world in which I believe that the Catholic Church should be at the forefront in condemning and preventing but alas it is failing in its duties.
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@malsey What an intellectually challenged comment! You go to Church because you believe in God and want to hear Mass. The opinion of a priest should not influence you to go to Church or not. If you are a real Catholic you should go to Church beacuse yoou want and not to please anyone. Every Catholic should go to Church except those who cannot go because of physical or psychological conditions.
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They did well to walk out. Seems that the church learned nothing from its mistakes of the 60's when it made many families cry. The end result was that many left her fold. This will happen again this time round. The problem is that Archbishop Cremona sits blissfully in the corner completely overtaken by the event going on round him
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Legend says that the people of Zejtun have got flat feet "saqajhom catti" because when Paul of Tarsus converted Malta to Christianity, they did not accept the faith and ran after him throwing stones at him. In return, Pawlu punished them by making their feet flat so they would find it difficult to run after him. A legend is always a legend and while Paul of Tarsus probably never stepped on our island [http://www.croatianhistory.net/etf/st_paul.html], this legend might hold a line of truth. Looking at the close proximity of Zejtun to Tas-Silg temple and the concentration of Abelas and Salibas (Phoenician surnames, still present in Lebanon) it's not hard to imagine that the people of this area did not want to give up their faith in Astarte and the other Phoenician gods. In 2011 the Zwieten do it again! Two thums up to all those who stood up and showed Angelo Seychell that he has NO POWER over their minds. P.S. Angelo Seychell, with those words, committed a crime which in Malta Cattolicissima will remain unpunished: General Elections Act, Schedule 14, Section 55: "Every person who directly or indirectly, by himself or by any other person on his behalf, makes use of or threatens to make use of any force , violence , or restraint , or inflicts , or THREATENS TO INFLICT….. ANY temporal or SPIRITUAL injury, damage, harm, or loss upon or against any person IN ORDER TO INDUCE OR COMPEL SUCH PERSON TO VOTE OR REFRAIN FROM VOTING, or on account of such person having voted or refrained from voting at any election….. SHALL BE GUILTY OF THE OFFENCE OF UNDUE INFLUENCE"
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well ban him too, from writing in local newspapers, he can go on the one's he support. I heard him yesterday that he in the 60's had to obey the church. So give him some back.
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Tmorrux iktar il knisja u tara kemm jibqaw jaghmlu l arja.
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Spot on Zejtuners - the church has no power unless poeple give it her. . And to give power to its unchristian attitudes is the same as endorsing it.