Fr Anton Gouder - public opinion on divorce is 'worrying'

The Church's talk of divorce and homosexuality is a diversion from the real issue - abuse of children by the clergy. Demonise your enemy and get away with murder. Is that not right Mr Gouder? You can fool some of the people some of the time but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. Why not introduce an oath against divorce just like Pius X introduced an oath against modernism. You say divorce is not a right. Since when has the Church started to believe in rights? Nice to see you on the side of democracy though. Why does not the Church be more democratic in its behaviour and structure. Perhaps Maltese Catholics should have a referendum to see whether they want you as their Pro-Vicar!

Christ had made it clear that one should distinguish clearly between God and Ceasar. This tenet seems to be put by the wayside by Fr Gouder who prefers to mention sins (mortal?) for those voting yes in a referendum. In a few months time we might hear about mortal sins and excommunications......mark my words! By pronouncing himself this way Fr Gouder is going against the principle of separation between Church and State. Last point, Gouder is making a fuss on (divorce) statistics from various countries in the world. Can he quote us statistics re priests leaving the priesthood and marrying? Are they prone to not keep their word as married couples who divorce? Why should one give priests the chance to go for a second sacrament (marraige) whereas married couples have only one chance? It seems that rather that giving Ceasar his dues, some ulta conservative elements in the Church would like Malta to remain a closed convent. Incredible but true.

How come gouder you talk on marriage and divorce when you never was married ? sow if i read a book of jetplan am a pilot ? he he he very funny mr gouder. keep it up

One other thing. I believe the Church should look back and atone for it sins. After all, it made it possible for Hitler to pass the Enabling Act when to reach agreement on the concodart it forced the self dissolution of the Catholic Party. Indeed, the Church has a history of entering into concodarts with dictators from napolean to Mussolini to Franco. And what about Croatia during WWII when it was run by a roman catholic priest where it committed atrocities against jews and other minorities that even made the SS blush. And why, to date, has the Church still failed to issue an unequivocal apology for Pius XII's failure to condemn in no uncertain terms the Holocaust; as well as centuries of hate which the Roman Catholic Church fuelled against the Jews resulting in many a polgrom over the centuries that culminated in the most horror of horrors under the Third Reich?

Mr gouder, divorse is boder you ? you better worry that in few mounts time church will pay pepole to become christians cos you want find followers to join the church clubs.

Fr Gouder is entitled, as a roman catholic priest, to his convictions. I too, however, am entitled to my own. If voting divorce is a sin - so be it; and I have no qualms for explaining my decision of why I voted in favour of divorce to God when I am called to account. As John Locke stated many years ago, a tyranny of the majority is as evil as a tyranny of the minority.

Anton Gouder and the Church he represents are welcome to their views,as narrow as they are. They are also welcome not to divorce just as much as they cherish their right not to marry. The rest of us want the facility to divorce if we so desire,This is a civil right which should be available to all and to which the State has an obligation to provide. The pursuit of happiness is a basic right which belongs to us all as Citizens.The protection and equality of minorities should be ultimate.

I cannot understand all the hullabaloo against Fr Gouder. He has expressed his views as he has every right to do in a democratic society. Being the spokesman of the Catholic Church one cannot expect anything but the official orthodox views on divorce. If there are still people who, instead of using their own conscience to decide what is right and what is wrong, prefer to let Fr Gouder do the thinking for them, then that is their problem. A sin is doing harm to thy neighbour. So the basic question is: When one votes for a law that allows people whose marriage has irretrievably broken down to start again to build a new family, is one doing harm or good to these neighbours? In my opinion, one's vote in any referendum on divorce should depend on the answer to that question and not on what the political, religious or media opinion makers dictate.

"First divorce, and what comes next? same-sex union? stop this blasphemy. Marriage is serious". No, what's next is the Papal cover-up of paedophile priests. Oh wait...we already have that.

"He replied that a priest will always remain a priest, but will not be able to hear confession, deliver communion or celebrate mass except in emergency situations. Similarly, a couple that separates is still married, but removed of duties advocated by marriage." More spin. So answer this: A priest relieved of the sacrament of priesthood can marry. Can a separated person become a Catholic priest? If the answer is NO, then Fr Gouder's "analogy" is nothing but the usual deceiptful spin.

Dear Fr Gouder, Is not scaremongering and telling people "even by enjoying the company of a divorcee, one may become influenced by the possibility of divorce" - as if divorcees have a contagious disease - a sin too? I have become accustomed to your spin and half-truths, but you have exceeded all expectations with this highly immoral claim.

It-Tmexxija tal-Knisja ahjar taqbad il-barri minn qruni u turina bis-serjeta, permezz tal-fatti li trid twettaq bidla fid-diversi oqsma interni taghha. Jekk inharsu lejn din l-ahhar sena l-Knisja tkellmet fuq diversi issues bhal abbuz,festi, divorzju, ambjent, familja u hafna issues ohrajn. Il-problema hi li hafna paroli imbaghad kollox jispicca jmut fuq fommu. Jekk niehdu bhala ezempju l-issues tal-Festi, rajna lil Mons Gouder protagonist jghidilna il-problemi. Pero' dejjem ra l-problemi li mhux qeghdin taht il-kompetenza tieghu u nesa ghal kollox l'hekk imsejjha dnubiet interni li jsiru fil-knejjes bil-benedizzjoni u l-approvazzjoni tal-Kurja ta' Malta. Jekk naraw l-issue ta' l-abbuz imnalla li kellna z-zjara tal-Papa u l-pressure tal-media ghax kieku kollox jispicca taht it-tapit bhal kull haga ohra. Il-Knisja trid taghmel evalwazzjoni ta' l-operat kollu taghha u turina bil-fatti li trid taghmel bidla mhux tal-principji pero ta' l-operat halli tibqa kredibbli. It-tmexxija tal-Kurja bidliet l-ucuh pero' zammet l-istess Pratticitajiet, Stil u Politika taghha. Nahseb li sewwa jghidu li minn jidher fit-tmexxija qieghed hemm just bhala figura meta fil-verita in-nies marbuta mat-tradizzjonijiet u l-affarijiet kosmetici kollha ghadhom imexxu u jaghmlu dak kollu li jidrilhom.

First divorce, and what comes next? same-sex union? stop this blasphemy. Marriage is serious.

halijna nejxu Dun Gouder jimporta!!...........lanqas li kieku aw 5% li jridu d divorzu ghax xorta tajjeb li jidhol!!..........Hekk ghalimna Kristu li ninjoraw lill- minoranza??? Dawn it-tip ta qassisijn ibedu n-nies mill- jmorru 'suppost jisimu l-kelma t' Alla'..........anke waqt l-omelija jekk ma jdahlux l-insolujibita tal- familja ma jkuux huma!!..............possibli?? Kristu hekk rid?? li zwieg ma jirnexijx u tibqa tkun ma mara jeww ragel indannat ghal hajtek??...............mela sew meta l Father 'taqbizlu' jitlaq u jizzeweg (jekk ma jsibx xi tifel) u kopja li sfortunatament jikkrola z zwieg ma jistawx jergu jkun kuntenti kief wara kollox Gesu rid!!..................Fr Gouder int taf xi trid li nergu mmoru ghal 50s u taqba tigri in naha l-ohra tat triq meta tara qassas biex tbuslu idejh!!!!..............halijna nejxu father please

But this time and age people are more educated the Ft, Gouder. Keep your Malta Catholic Heaven to yourself, I wonder who wants to join peoiple like you after one dies.,

in the end what Anton Gouder says is not worrying , he is just a man like all saying his own- i know many will hear and do what he says, but they are the usual people where they see sin everywhere in all apart form themselves- like it says in thier religion -don't see the small thing your brother have in his eye ,just see your own which is much bigger- LOL. personally i don't care what Anton Gouder says- he can say his say as all ........ to be continued

Ango, ahna r-ross ma nikluhx bil-labra ta!!!!!!!

I heard the interview on RTK with Fr Anton Gouder and I have to say that I was really disappointed with the tone adopted. I confirm that on prompting by interviewer he made it clear that voting yes in a referendum on divorce is a sin. Up to that point I was very much in favour of holding a referendum on divorce as the best way forward democratically but seeing that the 2nd topmost churchman is in favour of threatening Cathollic voters with (mortal?) sin, I am now sceptical. A thought came to my mind which I would like to share with readers. Would such announcements by the Church during a referendum constitute a corrupt practice under the 1971 law enacted by Dom Mintoff. If yes, the result of a referendum held in such conditions would be null and void.

I wonder why you used a report from Orizzont to produce this item when you could have easily gone to the original interview on RTK website. With reference to the part where sin is mentioned, Orizzont produced an unfair reporting. Here is the transcript of the interview about this aspect for all your readers Tonio Bonello (TB): Fi programm li kien hawn l-Arċisqof fuq id-divorzju qal li jekk l-MPs jivvutaw favur il-ligi tad-divorzju jkunu moralment ħażin. Allura jekk isir referendum, il-poplu li jivvota favur ikun moralment ħażin. Dun Anton Gouder (AG): Tonio, eżattament qal hekk l-Arcisqof: “Anki meta jigi persuna li verament jemmen, bilfors irid jgħaddi minn kunflitt kbir”, dan li qal l-Arċisqof, “għax jaf li dak li hu miexi warajh huwa Ġesu x’jgħallem fuq żwieġ u hemm hekk, u hemm jiġi li qed jivvota kontra dak li għallem Sidna Ġesu Kristu li qalilna huwa tant prezjuż”. TB: Imma mbagħad kien hemm telefonata fl-istess programm li qal li huwa moralment ħażin. AG: Imbagħad kien hemm telefonata fl-istess programm li qaltlu: “Ċar u tond kif għandu jivvota?” u l-Arċisqof weġibha: “Ċar u tond, persun li hija kattoliku u konvinta għandha tivvota favur żwieġ sagru.” Qiegħed naqra minn transcript tal-programm. TB: Sewwa, imma jiġifieri, allura min imbagħad fir-referendum jivvota favur. Se jkun moralment ħażin? AG: Da żgur TB: Ħa nkun aktar blant ... AG: Stenna ftit, jekk inti, qed tivvota kontra l-konvinzjoni tiegħek kattolika, kontra dak li qallek Ġesu Kristu, qed tagħmel tajjeb? L-Arċisqof qal, qiegħed f’kotradizzjoni, tidħol f’kontradizzjoni, tkun f’konflitt. TB: Father ħa nkun iżjed sempliċi .... AG: Jekk l-Arċisqof qal “Ċar u tond, jekk persuna li hija Kattolika u konvinta għandha tivvota favur żwieġ sagru. Allura min ma jagħmilx hekk? TB: Ħa nagħmluha aktar sempliċi, “moralment ħażin” xi tfisser? AG: Tfisser dnub. TB: OK. Mela, Qabel nidħol għat-telefonati, Fr Peter Serracino Inglott, f’ġurnal lokali kien qal li jekk il-liġi tad-divorzju tkun se sservi ta’ ġid komuni, allura deputat kattoliku huwa fid-dmir li jivvota favur dik il-liġi. Donnu li kultant hawn messaġġi konfliġġenti. AG: Bla dubju, li hawn messaġġi konfliġġenti. Pero’, Fr Peter Serracino Inglott għamel kundizzjoni mportanti ħafna; li dan id-deputat irid ikun konvint li se sservi għal ġid komuni. Issa dik trid tkun ippruvata. Jiena, x’naqbad ngħid, għax ma nixtieqx ninstema’ ..., naħseb li dawn l-affarijiet irriċerkajthom u studjajthom u fl-ebda pajjiż għadni ma sibt li serviet ta’ ġid komuni. Jista’ jkun li f’pajjiżna sservi. ---- numru ta’ telefonati mhux fuq dan l-aspett ---- Telefonata Rigward id-dnub, jiena ġieni dan il-ħsieb. Jekk isir referendum favur id-divorce jew kontra u l-poplu Malti juri li jrid id-divorce, dawk in-nies li jmorru jqerru issa, ujkunu vvuttaw għad-divorce, dawk ha jkunu skummnikati għall-eternita’. AG: Le le mhux veru. Dik inti qed tgħidha. Mhux ovvja, mhux ovvja .... AG: Le le mhux ovvju .... Jekk inti qed tgħid li fil-morali tagħhom qed jagħżlu d-divorce mhux se tagħtihom l-assoluzzjoni meta jmorru jqerru għax għażlu d-divorce. AG: Li tagħmel dnub ma jfissirx li tkun skummnikat għal dejjem. Jiġifieri, id-dnubiet kollha, jekk inti jiddispjaċik minnhom, jinħafru, tista’ tqerr, tingħata l-assoluzzjoni u tista’ titqarben. Id-dnubiet kollha. Jiġifieri, jekk jiġi xi ħadd u jgħidli: ‘Jien qed nisraq minn fuq ix-xogħol’, u jien ngħidlu, “Ħa tieqaf? Ħa troddhom lura?” Jekk jgħidli iva, jien nagħtih l-assoluzzjoni, jista’ jqerr u jista’ jitqarben. Jekk jgħidli, “Le, ma tarax! Dak sinjur u jien neħodlu”. Jien ma nistax nagħtih l-assoluzzjoni. Jiġifieri din mhux fuq id-divorzju u affarijiet oħra biss. Jien ngħidlu “Le ħi, ma nistax nagħtik l-assoluzzjoni, għax jekk nagħtik l-assoluzzjoni, apparti li għalik ma tiswiex, dak kollu li sraqtlu lil dak irrid inroddulu minn tiegħi jien. TB: Father, allura, ej nużaw din il-frażi li hu moralment ħażin, tista’ tqum il-problema tal-ġlieda politika-reliġjuża? AG: Le le. L-ewwelnett, kif qegħdin naraw li dina mhux xi problema ta’ xi partit. It-tieninett, tajba din, inti tista’ tgħid li trid tagħmel li trid, u l-Knisja ma tistax tagħti ġudizzju morali li hija fil-kompetenza tagħha issa. Issa m’aħniex nitkellmu fuq statistika. Ma tistax tagħti ġudizzju morali fuq l-imġieba tal-membri tagħha? Minn dawk li ma jimpurtahomx ma tindaħalx. Fuq il-membri tagħha, l-Knisja għandha d-dmir, il-missjoni mogħtija minn Ġesu Kristu TB: Li tgħallem AG: Le mhux li tgħallem biss. Ġesu qal: “Dak li torbtu fl-art ikunu marbuta fis-sema u dak li tħollu fl-art ikun maħlul fis-sema ukoll.” Mhux li tgħallem biss, imma anke li tagħti ġudizzju morali. Imma b’daqshekk ma jfissirx li hemm xi kwistjoni politika reliġjuża, jew xi skommunika, jew xi affarijiet bħal dawn.

Is this not the same organization which protects child molesters and which through the ages has resisted progress, committed atrocities, tortured, murdered and started wars. Here in Malta - we are still taught on how cruel the French were - remember that guy that murdered in Rabat - threw him off a balcony? Maybe we should get Malta today to publish the speech he gave in Valletta - about education, liberty and equality. Want to gain some moral authority? Speak up against corruption within this government and within your church - both rotten to the core!

I wonder if that is a sin as well?

we can disagree on dvorce but fr gouder is one of the most reliable priests i ever met. trusthworthy and full of good intentions. He wont be engaged in the politics of accomodation or cooruption and i can say this from first hand. Yet i still disagree with him on this issue. Wot the church is missing out is that there is a threat to the family nowadays not from divorce but from cohabitation. People do not want commitment and want to do as they please and if they decide to leave , they leave, but then they are not worried abt committing themselves of having a child and making the child suffer due to their non comittal instinct. Something is wrong in this thinking. Furthermore i find society even more absurd since while the heterosexual couples are moving away from marriage and into cohabitation, gay people are insisting with the whole world that they want to get married. Im lost!

This is my advice to any authority expressing its opinion. The statement: "Who votes for divorce will be committing sin" is a judgement. According to what I learned only God will judge and on earth the court passes judgement against its law. Is this statement issued in order to maintain a comfort zone? I think the church should concentrate to promote love between families as this is the only weapon that keeps divorce away from families. At present there are no divorce laws but I ask Fr Gouder have a good look around you. What do you see? Broken families with a lot of cohabitation! What is the church doing to this regard? Is its action enough? Jesus was tempted by several but he never used his power to keep them away but used the power of love to make them choose the right way. I am a firm beleiver of the unity of the family and don't need divorce....but I will vote for divorce not because I beleive in it but because I want Authorities to get out of their comfort zone and work HARD to maintain families in love.

Fr Gouder warned that "even by enjoying the company of a divorcee, one may become influenced by the possibility of divorce. This statement is very unfair and misleading. Are you telling us to cut ties with divorcees including our children and relatives who divorced? Where is your compassion?

Its nothing short of tragic that the church is led by such persons. I suppose he should now add that all those who voted (in parlaiment and/or referenda) in favour of divorce in all the countries of the world (except Malta and the Philippines) and all the divorcees in these countries have committed a sin - and I ask is this a mortal sin or not and if a mortal sin are all these persons destined to go to hell....

Is Fr Gouder stating an opinion or is he stating the formal position of the catholic church when he says that it is a sin for Catholics to vote in favour of divorce legislation? Did the church also hold this position during the irish vote?

Ghidlu ma jdahhaqx nies BIH lil Fr Anton Gouder xqed jahsibhom in nies ta xi 50 sena ilu meta Shabu il KLERU 50 sena ilu kienu jibqaw ghidu lin nies biex ikomplu igibu it tfal fid dinja qieshom ANIMALI Mela sewwa Fr Gouder in nies ingenerali huwa DNUB mejjet li tivvota ghad divorzju mela li ikollok parti min SHABEK imissu it tfal xinhuwa Fr Gouder mhux ahjar taghlaq HALQEK li ma jmurx jerga jigrijlik bhal meta ippruvajt taqta il marcijiet ta fil ghodu Iz zmien ta dnub il mejjet dak ghadda zmienu dawn l-affarijiet irid jahtahhom min ikun imdahhal fil BORMA Fr Gouder mhux int ghax il platt tieghek dejjem SHUN Kemm hemm minnkom qassisin li tghinu lil min hu batut Fr Gouder ghax intkom il KLERU 3/4 minkom kollha STABENE

Dear Mr.Pro- vicar Anton Gouder and Co you have said your saying as always. You think will tell me or who have a min to think to do or not what to do in our life? do you think that the majority of people will listen to you and your co.? we are not in the middle ages where the church had an enormous power in the world. burn the witches ? or ... ? or as in the 1960's few years ago. who votes MLP makes sin or bury them in an unholy ground? Mr.gouder mr.gouder you know we aer not in the 1960 - you will not fool the majority of the modern society nor anyone- all the world have divorce even in philippines soon they will in the future- the majority of the people are not under the church manipulation anomore- So continue to talk to try to say what bad it will do.I think the chucrh has it serious internal grave problems to solve and everyone knows what they are- phadoephiles etc... even among the chucrh there are large conflicts what to except and what not to except- so just continue to talk -you are just a man like all- to be continued....

"He also claimed that more marriages would break down, causing pain to couples, with the introduction of divorce in Malta." I thought that the whole point of divorce is to allow a broken marriage to be dissolved legally, so the couples can be given another chance to marry someone with who they might spend the rest of their lives with. No one is forcing anyone to divorce, and it would be something sought only by the ones who require it. So no, this statement is retarded, to say the least. "He replied that a priest will always remain a priest, but will not be able to hear confession, deliver communion or celebrate mass except in emergency situations." So let's get this straight. A priest will remain (morally?) a priest, and stripped off the "privilege" of doing all the stuff priests do. However, he is allowed to marry. On the other hand, separated couples are stripped off all the pluses of marriage... full-stop. Discrimination anyone? This said however, the Churc'sh own brand of divorce is perfectly OK, and in this case, God's almighty hand which blessed the marriage can be overridden... at a charge of course. And lo and behold, one could hear the the tingling of the Kurja's coffers as they become heavier and heavier. Well done Mr. Gouder (you're not my father, I don't call you father), another brilliant piece of marketing for Kurja plc.