.png)
.png)
IVA movement calls for greater separation between Church and State
Moviment IVA chairperson Deborah Schembri has called for greater separation between Church and State powers.
4 May 2011, 12:00am
Rachel Zammit Cutajar
Rachel Zammit Cutajar
3 min read
Speaking at the Cittadella in Victoria, Gozo, Deborah Schembri said the need of such a separation of powers was necessary, referring to the supremacy of the Church tribunals over the Maltese civil courts.
The 1995 Church-State agreement brought into effect laws that stay any civil annulment proceedings if one of the parties takes the case to an Ecclesiastical Tribunal. The civil court then must accept the decision of the church tribunal.
“A Church annulment can take five to six years of proceedings in the event that everything goes smoothly. When it is more complicated it can take up to 12 or 13 years, while a civil annulment takes only a year,” Schembri said. "The duration of these church annulments means involved parties cannot get on with their normal lives."
Moreover, church procedures do not conform to civil proceedings, which, she said, was infringing on human rights. One such right is the right to a lawyer of choice.
Schembri said that responsible divorce provided a just solution for couples who do not need to find excuses to seek annulments.
The Moviment IVA chairperson went on to explain how an annulment is not possible in many cases. “In cases where domestic violence occurs after marriage, there is no cause for annulment, and neither adultery is cause for annulment, no matter how many times it has occurred,” Schembri said.
She said that on average, between 35 to 40 Maltese couples obtain a divorce overseas each year, “a reality that exposes a situation of outright discrimination against those who do not have the resources.”
Schembri insisted that divorce is a civil right that must be granted to the Maltese people.
In other countries it is impossible to seek out a Church annulment until after divorce proceedings have begun. Schembri says that this is to ensure that all parties interests are taken into consideration. "An annulment nullifies the marriage whilst a divorce simply ends it. In the case of a divorce alimony and custody rights are taken into consideration, which is why a divorce must take place before an annulment can proceed."
Increasing the possible scenarios where an annulment is granted is not a solution as we are "simply going through the window instead of the door just to keep saying we do not have divorce in Malta.
She also referred to the messages on billboards by the‘No’ to divorce campaign. “The ‘no’ campaign ridicules the parents featured on the billboards around the island as in reality they would never be so close if they were part of a broken marriage,” she said.
Schembri added that contrary to the ongoing scaremongering, “divorce is not going to cause a marriage to fail, but it will give parties a second chance.”
Responding to the no camp's billboard against divorce as proposing marriage with an expiry data, Schembri said nobody ever gets married with an expiry date in mind. "Divorce does not break up marriages, but just provides a solution.”
Rachel Zammit Cutajar graduated in economics from the University of Malta...
•
Rachel Zammit Cutajar - you write:
"Schembri insisted that divorce is a civil right that must be granted to the Maltese people."
Please be careful how you weave your words together. Divorce is NOT a civil right - as you put.
It is the establishment of the civil institutions which can process divorce applications - if and when these are needed - that is a civil right.
Bil Malti pur: hedd thallat il hass mal bass ... M'am
•
IT IS EASIER TO SEPARATE SIAMESE TWINS THAN TO SEPARATE THE GOVERNMENT AND THE CHURCH.
Reormation ... Henry 8th did it in England 500 years ago ...
•
Jien sal llum ma ghandi l-ebda opinjoni favur jew kontra anzi jien cert li din saret biex taljena n-nies mil-miserja ta hafna li huma 'below poverty line' u hawn min hu hekk ghax il-qaghda tal-pajjiz gabithom hekk..
Jien dejjem nghid li ligi bhal din ma kellhiex tigi ghandna ghax l-ewwel wiehed jien ma nifhemx bizzejjed biex nghid iva jew le. jien iz-zwieg insibu iebes u inkompli niggieled biex inzommu haj minhabba t-tfal; ghax naf li it-tfal tieghi ibatu mas-separazzjoni ahseb u ara jekk xi hadd minna jerga jizzewweg. pero ma inix nippretendi li kulhadd bhali. mela bhal kull ligi din ghandha tghaddi mill-parlament u hemm tigi studjata kull klawsola u mela nigi xi hadd bhali li nipprova inqis lil kulhadd b'xibri.
naturalment xejn ma hu kollu tajjeb jew kollu hazin ghalhekk la ma nafx hux izjed tajjeb jew izjed hazin behsiebni noqghod id-dar u nara x'jivvota min ghandu opinjoni favur jew kontra.
Nispicca billi nkun car fuq il-knisja kif naraha jien; din ghamlet u taghmel hafna gid u ghamlet u taghmel xi zbalji; it-tajjeb infahhru u l-hazin ma rridux. Pero bejn x'temmen u l-knisja hemm bahar x jikkumbatti ghax jien nemmen li il-knisja tista tghinek tasal biex taghmel it-tajjeb imma sta ghalik jekk taghmelx dak li hu tajjeb jew le.
•
@Bejn il-linji. Nixtieq nirreferik ghal zewg opinjonijiet ta' zewg Reverendi. Dun Charles Vella u Noel Grima.
Monsinjur Charles Vella, meta kien qieghed jikkummenta fuq ir-rapport li thejja mis-sur Martin Scicluna dwar aspetti tad-divorzju, kiteb hekk," My theory is that while divorce is considered a menace to the stability of marriages, it does not mean that it is going to wreck marriages....The state has to come to grips with the problem of divorce...it has a duty to do it....The people on the ground are crying out for help from the State....we need to change the marriage law". Tista' ssib din fl-Independent tal-Hadd li ghadda fl-Artiklu miktub mill-istess Martin Scicluna.
Noel Grima, li kien kappillan tal-Gzira u wara zzewweg, ghalkemm tghidli imma dak m'ghadux qassis, nghidlek ghandek zball ghax ghall-knisja jibqa' qassis ghal dejjem, (Sacerdos in Aeternum). Dan fl-Independent tal-Hadd 24 t'April kiteb artiklu taht ir-ras "Women of Malta: your hour has come", ghamel appell lin-nisa fuq kulhadd biex jivvotaw favur id-divorzju . U jien cert li hemm qassisin ohra li jaqblu ma dan imma jibzghu jitkellmu fil-miftuh minhabba s-solita censura ekklezjastika. Jien li tghid li ma tivvotax ghalija jfisser li jew m'ghandekx opinjoni personali jew inkella ghadek titwerwer mill-pressjoni ekklezjastika. M'hemmx triq ohra. Ghandu jkollok mohh u kuxjenza li ma jigux immanipulati minn HADD. Is-sliem u nawguralek.
•
Bejn il-linji ,jien ser nghidlek ghaliex ser nivvota IVA. L-ewwel nett dahhalha f'rasek li l-Knisja hi parti mill -Istat imma l-Istat MHUX parti mill-Knisja. Il-Knisja trid TOBDI l-ligijiet tal-Istat imma l-Istat mhux marbut bil-ligijiet tal-Knisja. Ghalhekk huma zewg entitajiet differenti minn xulxin imma l-Knisja trid DEJJEM toqghod ghal-ligijiet civili..Issa int semmejt l-iskejjel. Nahseb li ma tafx li din is-sena BISS il-Gvern ser johrog 43 MILJUN ewro ghall-iskejjel tal-Knisja !!..Dawn mit-taxxi li nhallsu ahna c-cittadini.
Tinsiex ukoll li l-istess Prim Ministru fil-Parlament ammetta li d-divorzju f'Malta jrid jidhol bilfors, jekk mhux illum ,fil-futur. Allura ghaliex mhux issa flok ghada ?.
L-istess KATEKIZMU TAL-KNISJA KATTOLIKA, f'pagna 555, fuq nett, hemm dawn i-precizi kelmiet..."Jekk divorzju civili biss jista' jizgura certi drittijiet legittimi, bhalma huma l-kura tat-tfal u l-harsien tal-gid, dan jista' jigi tollerat minghajr ma jkun hemm ebda htija morali". Iktar cara minn hekk ma tistax tkun . U dan it-taghlim tal-Knisja stess !!.
It-traduzzjoni tal-Bibbja Maltija thalli lok ghal interpretazzjonijiet miftuha. Fejn hemm il-famuzi kliem Gesu'..."..li kull min jibghat lil martu, hlief minhabba RABTA HAZINA, u jizzewweg ohra, jizni". Rabta hazina tista' taghtiha tifsiriet kemm trid, imma QATT ma jispjegawlna x'inhija/ x'inhuma din/dawn ir-Rabta/rabtiet hazina/hziena !!. Ara jekk tfittex f'kull Bibbja barranija, kemm bl-Ingliz u kemm bit-Taljan (fis-sit elettroniku tal-Vatikan), issib specifikat ," except for FORNICATION", u "eccetto in caso di CONCUBINATO".
Id-dhul tad-divorzju CIVILI mhu se jgieghel lil HADD jiddivorzja bilfors, daqs kemm L-Annullament tal-Knisja ma jgieghel lil HADD jannulla zwiegu.
Ohra, bhalissa meta l-Knisja taghti annullament, peress li tghid li dak iz-zwieg QATT m'ezista (!!!), it-tfal lanqas biss jissemmew !!. U min ikollu t-tfal taht il-kustodja tieghu ikollu jiftah kawza civili ghall-manteniment !!. S'hemm jimpurtah mit-tfal it-tribunal ekklezjastiku !!. Ghax ghalihom, la jiddikjaraw li dak iz-zwieg QATT ma sehh, kull konsegwenza li harget minnu qisha m'ezistietx lanqas !!. Tista' tkun iktar ridikola minn hekk ??. Ghalhekk, nerga' mtenni, li jien ser nivvota IVA Bil-qalb u minghajr tingiz tal-kuxjenza. Zmien it-twerwir mill-babaw ilu li ghadda zmienu. U l-kurja u l-qassisin u l-patrijiet, ahjar joqoghdu attenti ghax il-hsara li qed jaghmlu lill-istess knisja ghad iridu jaghtu kont lil Alla ghalihom. Issa fuq il-kuxjenza ta' kulhadd u ta' kull individwu.
•
@ bejn il-linji
Habib isemmi ghadd ta' istituzzjonijiet tal-Knsija biex thallat il-borma u tipprova tiggustifika li l-Knisja tidddetta fl-affarijiet tal-istat.
Ha nkunu cari, il-Knisja taghmel gid enormi f'dawn l-istituzzjonijiet anke grazzi ghall-kontribuzzjonijiet ta' nies bhali li forsi l-ghatba tal-knisja ma nkissruhiex.
Però habib ara ma tahsibx li bhala pajjiz ghandna tant biex niftahru b'din is-sitwazzjoni.
Qajla ghandna biex niftahru meta tant persuni dizabbli u tfal iltima jew gejjin minn familji mkissra (anke jekk m'hawnx divorzju) jispiccaw jghixu f'istituzzjonijiet karitattivi. Iva, jiena nippretendi li jkun l-istat li jahseb biex lil dawn itihom futur ahjar.
Imma donnu l-Knisja kuntenta tilghab il-karta tal-karita. Anke f'din l-istess kwistjonit tad-divorzju, komda minghajru ghax dawk imgarrfa jridu jmorru jitallbu ghal xi annulament filwaqt li tfaqqarhom. (Ovvjament dan dejjem jekk ma tkunx iben xi ras gholja li ghal annulament kiseb tnejn u anke tlieta).
Intant, nitlob ghalik.
•
Bejn il linji, with all due respect get out of your shell.
Divorce is not poligamy, look up a dictionary.
Furthermore DS spoke about separation between church and state in respect of marriage laws. Dar il providence, skejjel etc etc simply means li qed thallat il hass ma' l'insalata.
HOWEVER remember that the church schools and many institutions exist because of government subsidies (ie tax payers money).
It does not take an honorable retired Judge to understand that the two drivers behind the now obvious church crusade are loss of power and money.
Frankly divorce will only be there for those who want to use it NOT an imposition on anyone.
However the No camp want an impositon to prevent to Maltese living in Malta from divorcing. Obviously the wealthily can get if from abroad.
What you should bear in mind is that this is not a debate about divorce in the roman catholic religion but in civil society. A divorce simply means the right to remarry at the registrar.
These unfortunate people need comprehension and solidarity not nonsensical dogma.
•
we are back to the sixties no more no less .How can the church keep on this way .Today Gonzi didn`t want to give a free vote like PL are doing..and then PN says that they are an open Party !!!!!!!!!
•
Two myths about secularism
Meg Wallace stresses that that political secularism is not anti-religious. On the contrary, it means that the state gives you full religious freedom, so long as you respect the rights of others. Nor does it prevent you from freely discussing religious topics in the public sphere, so long as you coerce no one and the resulting legislation can be justified on grounds of general wellbeing, not on the doctrine of a particular group.
Roger Williams erects a wall between church and state
In the 1630s, when most of Europe was convulsed by religious wars, Roger Williams introduced and put into practice a powerful new idea: that there should be a wall between church and state. In the Colony of Rhode Island in the American woods church and state were separated and no one faced religious persecution. The wall protected "God's garden" (the church) from the impure world and, at the same time, gave religious freedom to all.
•
Separation of church and state (secularism)
Church-state separation does not guarantee human rights — as is shown by Communist dictatorships. But this separation is necessary if human rights are to be possible — as is shown by societies living under religious rules, whether Sharia, Hindu Law, Halaka or Canon Law. Here you will find more than two dozen articles and documents.
What is secularism?
Some opponents of church-state separation redefine “secularism” as “state neutrality” to allow their group (among others) to get state funding. Others try to discredit it by conflating “secularism” with “atheism”. But it's a political, rather than a religious doctrine and its purpose is to help level the playing field in order to give a better chance for human rights.
Secular Charter: Unpacking “secularism”
The aim is to make sure that Human Rights always take precedence over religious demands. But how is this to be done? This useful list shows what the separation of religion and the state means in practice. Religion is protected from interference by the state - and vice versa.
•
Veru li is-60's kien hawn il-glieda politico religjuza pero jien nghid ghalija ma kont niddejjaq xejn inkun fil-qalba tal-laburisti u l-hanut tieghi kien aqwa minn kazin laburista u minn daqshekk min kien laburist kien laburist vera u mhux l-ghada tal-elezzjoni nies maghzula laburisti jnehhu l-flokk ta fuq biex juru l-flokk bl-arma nazzjonalista. Jien cert li din tad-divorzju bdiha hazin tax-xemxija u ghamilha ghax ma tawhx li ried. Din qatt ma kellha tigi ghar-referendum imma kellu ikun il-parliament li meta jkollu studju resposabbli jara x'jaqbel u jekk ikun izjed ahjar li tidhol din il-ligi tkun tista tidhol ligi vera resposabbli u kif tixraq lil poplu taghna.
Kif gew l-affarijiet l-ewwel trid tghaddi mir referendum li skond il-ligi ma jiswa xejn.
Issa nigu ghal min irid ihallat ligi civili mar-religjon...din il-ligi tapplika biss ghal ligi civili ghax min irid jizzewweg bil-knisja d-divorzju ma jghoddx anke jekk tghaddi l-ligi. Nigu ghad-demokrazija u ghal minqal li qeghdin fi zmien l-internet jien nemmen li kulhadd ghandu jghid u jkollu liema opinjoni irid u la ser isir referendum min ikollu l-maggoranza jirbah.
Nixtieq nara aktar argumenti kostruttivi kemm favur u kemm kontra biex min ghadu mhux deciiz ikollu c-cans li jgharbel u jghazel iva jew le skond ma jhoss li hu l-ahjar.
•
Ergajna waqajna fiz-zmien tad-dlamijiet tas-sittinijiet. Gonzi jidher li qed jimxi fuq il-passi ta zijuh, li jibqa' jissemma fl-istorja ta' Malta ghall-firda kbira li gab fost il-Maltin u ghal kemm irnexxielu jbieghed nies mill-knisja u s-sagramenti.
•
Malta & Gozo - Gozitans & the Maltese whose conscience is clear and who do not have that heavy burden of pedophilia and cuildrens sexual abuse must remember this.
The Roman Catholic Church can talk till they are blue in the face.
This is Malta in 2011 and not Malta in the 40s, 50s or 60s when most of the population was kept in ignorance and censorship and was fed daily a dose of religious fearmongery.
In 1971, the Maltese were brave enough to stand up to the hypocrisy of the Curia and elect a left of centre government.
Now 40 years on when the Maltese have the internet and most citizens are literate and have access to wordly information, together let them stand up and by their vote declare to the Curia that the days of mental manipulation are over because it is their civil right not to be discriminated against if they cannot afford to go overseas and it is also their civil right to seek a second chance of a marriage union, if they made a mistake in their first vows of marriage.
The dark and insolent actions by the Curia of the past will not work this time because the Maltese and Gozitan have become a lot smarter than to trust this religious order who main concern is to protect their financial positions in annulments
•
Biex inkun car u ma nibqax bejn il-linji; jien la jien qassis, la jien qaddis u kull ma jien bniedem kwalunke bi twemmin tajjeb li bhal ma nemmen u jien kuntent... jien... nixtieq il kulhadd kuntent.
•
Mela kemm hu importanti din l-mishuta poligamija. Min jizzewweg sa issa jaghti kelma li qieghed jizzewweg ghal dejjem. Lanqas il-Princep ma jrid jahseb x'jaghmel jekk jinfirdu.
Din Deborah Schembri jekk qed nifhem sew trid li l-Gvern jiehu f'idejh:
Dar il-Providenza;
ma nafx kemm orfanatrofji tal-Knisja;
ma nafx kemm djar tax-xjuh tal-Knisja;
ma nafx kemm skejjel tal-Knisja;
fil-kaz peress li ma jidhrux inhallu lil min qed jghin baxx baxx lil min hu batut..
xejn xejn ahna tal-knisja inkunu nistghu nghaddu hafna iktar hin nitolbu u naqraw il-Bibbja...
jekk jghoggbok DS meta tahseb li ser tibda din il-firda bejn gvern u knisja?????
•
Lawrence Gonzi has just dumped 30 years of a liberal PN into the dustbin to befriend the church more intimately. Just read mazzun.wordpress.com and you'll get to know more.
•
Is pedophilia a case for annulment? Kieku i-Knisja uriet l-istess hegga li qed turi biex izzomm il-privileggi taghha fil-kaz tad-divorzju bhal ma suppost ghamlet fil-kazi ta abbuz sesswali fuq tafl innocenti....kieku tghid heqq il-Knisja taf li zbaljat: imma dan mhux il-kaz!
•
Unfortunately, in Malta, the church IS the state and the Maltese are being strangled by the vatican and it's local cronies.
•
Ghal darba ma gabux ritratt tal-Prim jidhaq, skuzi, jiddiehaq bin-nies imma donnu hawn kien qieghed jiehu xi sahna gmiela ghax ghandu wiccu qisu skarnat bis-sahna. Tghid il-Mons kien ghadu kif qallu li l-bicca tad-divorzju tort tieghu?
•
IT IS EASIER TO SEPARATE SIAMESE TWINS THAN TO SEPARATE THE GOVERNMENT AND THE CHURCH.
•
"The 1995 Church-State agreement brought into effect laws that stay any civil annulment proceedings if one of the parties takes the case to an Ecclesiastical Tribunal. "
And what if the other party is non-Catholic and does not want to be subjected to the decisions of a religion that he/she does not recognise, or even considers to be evil?
