[WATCH] Muscat parries with Carabott as former PM is needled over Keith Schembri

There were heightened emotions in a second sitting of the public account committee, in which witness and former prime minister Joseph Muscat fended off questions from chairman and Nationalist MP Darren Carabott.

The crescendo was concentrated in the final stages of the two-hour hearing, where questions on technical details of the Electrogas contract – under scrutiny by the PAC as per the report of the National Audit Office – passed on to political questions.

Carabott insisted upon having an answer from Muscat on words former chief of staff Keith Schembri told the PAC, in which he said he had recommended auditors Nexia BT to former energy minister Konrad Mizzi for the creation of an offshore company, because “he told me everything I touched turned to gold”.

[WATCH] Muscat mounts strong defence of Electrogas contract

Muscat at first said that Schembri’s tax advice did not imply anything wrong in itself. “You are asking me as to whether someone does anything wrong by giving a recommendation to another… if they are breaking the law, of course I would not agree; but if this is asking for tax advice, no I don’t see anything wrong.”

As Carabott repeated the question, needling Muscat on whether he could simply reply whether Mizzi’s statement was “acceptable or not”, Labour MPs tried to pick apart Carabott’s interpretation of Schembri’s statement to the PAC. “You are turning this committee into a committee of soundbites,” Labour MP and minister Clayton Bartolo quipped.

Right before the end of the committee hearing at 4pm, Carabott insisted once again on an answer from Muscat, whose dander this time was raised.

“In my opinion you must consult the guidelines and standards of how you are treating any ordinary citizen in this committee. I’ve already answered you.

“If you want a political debate, I will engage you… I think the way you’re running the committee today is a knee-jerk reaction to how you ran it last week. If you find no favour with my answer, that is your issue… you cannot expect me to be your parrot.”

Muscat was visibly irritated by the insistence on the question, accusing Carabott of trying to extract political statements from him that were unconnected to the hearing. “I can take you any day, anytime and anywhere,” he said in a parting shot.

Tensions were frayed from the start when Carabott seemed to take issue with a Muscat’s assistant Mark Farrugia scribbling a note for him. Muscat hit back asking Carabott whether the Standing Orders prohibited his assistant from writing a note for him to remind him of a speaking point. “We are not in some classroom here,” Muscat says. Carabott replied: “It is the witness who has to answer.” Muscat continued: “Quote the Standing Order that does not allow my assistant to write a note for me… you’ve had countless of witnesses assisted by lawyers who spoke for them.”

Quetsions from Carabott in this session focused on the selection of members for the evaluation committees on the Delimara gas plant project. Muscat said he had no role in picking the members, which also included Nexia BT partners. “I imagine it was Enemalta together with the energy ministry. Ultimately, at a ‘political level’, means this was at a leadership level of the entities involved in the issuance of the tender.”

Muscat denied influencing the selection of anybody on these committee, as well as having had any influence on who was to win the tender.

Carabott quoted the Caruana Galizia public inquiry on the control of the government’s machinations by a “small clique” of power connected to Castille – referring to Schembri and Mizzi.

“My reaction to the public inquiry is already known. I have my reservations on that conclusion – what you have read out just now, does not contradict what I have said. What the inquiry has produced is a subjective evaluation, which is no different in shape from the one-man decision-making of Richard Cachia Caruana before 2013. The NAO report itself has not deduced any form of external influence on the selection of Electrogas – I do not necessarily agree with the public inquiry’s conclusions, but in themselves they do not lead to the suggestion that the selection of gas plant tender winner was mandated by this group.”

Muscat said the people appointed to the selection committee were chosen for their competence and belief in the government’s policy on gas. “[Nexia BT partner] Brian Tonna was part of a team of 30 people, which means one person could not influence the entire opinion of this number. The NAO said in its report, that irrespective of administrative shortcomings, the decision on the selection of the winning tenderer in this case would not have changed. If a minister appoints someone to an evaluation committee, who is competent, then I agree with such an appointment. The procedure of every government is that a minister has the right to appoint these people.”

Tonna was recommended to the evaluation committees by energy minister Konrad Mizzi. Muscat says he learnt of this fact only after the committees were appointed. “I have never interfered into the selection of the appointees to these committees.”

Muscat also clarified that as MEP he used Nexia BT for his income tax filings between 2004 and 2008. He said he found no conflict of interest between their services during this time, and the appointment of Tonna to an evaluation committee.

Muscat attempted to swerve discussion onto a strong point he could filibuster on – the Egrant allegation. “These questions are not within this committee’s remit,” he told Carabott on questions related to Keith Schembri’s previous testimony to the PAC. “What is not being asked of me about this subject is that I was alleged of having taking millions through ‘Egrant’. This is the elephant in the room. The way I acted with certain people around me, was informed by the fact that false things had been said about me.”

16:01 The committee is adjourned. Carabott says he will summon Muscat yet again. Thank you for following. Matthew Vella

16:01 Muscat’s dander is raised. “In my opinion you must consult the guidelines and standards of how you are treating any ordinary citizen in this committee. I’ve already answered you. If you want a political debate, I will engage you… I think the way you’re running the committee today is a knee-jerk reaction to how you ran it last week. If you find no favour with my answer, that is your issue… you cannot expect me to be your parrot.”

The PAC starts degenerating here in this final minute. “I can take you any day, anytime and and anywhere,” an irritable Muscat says. Matthew Vella

15:58 Carabott’s question: “Do you think it is acceptable that a minister turns to your chief of staff asking what to do so that like him, everything he touches turns to gold..?” Matthew Vella

15:51 Clayton Bartolo: “You are turning this into a committee of soundbites.” Matthew Vella

15:51 Government MPs picking apart Carabott’s interpretation of the Schembri PAC testimony. Matthew Vella

15:49 Carabott says Muscat is finding it difficult to simply state whether Konrad Mizzi’s claim to Schembri (as quoted by Schembri) that ‘everything he touched turned to gold’, was acceptable or not… Matthew Vella

15:49 It is unclear as to why the committee is spending so much time on a kind of observation that was paraphrased in the testimony of Keith Schembri, and why Darren Carabott needs to extract the judgement of Joseph Muscat on this claim made by Schembri. Matthew Vella

15:48 Muscat turns to Carabott: “You are asking me as to whether someone does anything wrong by giving a recommendation to another… if they are breaking the law, of course I would not agree; but if this is asking for tax advice, no I don’t see anything wrong.” Matthew Vella

15:40 “I don’t think [Schembri’s] tax advice was anything wrong in itself,” Muscat says. Matthew Vella

15:37 Carabott – do you agree that a minister takes advice from your chief of staff because he told him ‘all you touch turns to gold’, and in turn the chief of staff directs him to Nexia BT? Objections from MPs… Matthew Vella

15:35 Carabott is asking Muscat questions on previous statements from Keith Schembri to the PAC, demanding reflections on the former PM on what his former chief of staff told them. “You can’t expect me to pass judgement on everything he said. These questions are not within this committee’s remit… what is not being asked of me about this subject is that I was alleged of having taking millions through the ‘Egrant’. This is the elephant in the room. The was I acted with certain people around me, was the fact that false things had been said about me.” Matthew Vella

15:23 Keith Schembri told the committee that Nexia BT were Muscat’s auditors during his time as MEP. Muscat says that between 2004-2008 he used their services for income tax purposes, not as auditors. Matthew Vella

15:23 Nexia BT’s partner Brian Tonna was recommended to the evaluation committees by energy minister Konrad Mizzi. Muscat says he learnt of this fact only after the committees were appointed. “I have never interfered into the selection of the appointees to these committees.” Matthew Vella

15:19 Muscat appears amused as MPs bicker over the authenticity of such emails. Carabott says he obtained the emails from journalistic sources, referring to The Times and The Shift. Matthew Vella

15:18 Similarly, again in an email from Electrogas CEO Catherine Halpin, Carabott is quoting statements from the former CEO complaining of delays in the deployment of the gas plant. The email claims former energy minister Konrad Mizzi told her ‘he will never stick his neck out again’ for the project. Muscat answers: “I think this is a question that Halpin must answer for.” Matthew Vella

15:15 Carabott shows Muscat an email from Electrogas on the opening of the new power station. Does he agree with the claim that this was “a purely political show” as said by the email sender? “You should ask that to be the people who benefit from the reduction in energy bills.” Matthew Vella

15:05 Muscat says it is true that the take-or-pay requirement on the quantity of gas supply had increased from 65% to 85%, but the actual volume of gas purchased had been reduced so this increase was effectively neutralised; additionally Enemalta was allowed to sell excess gas it purchased on the open market. Matthew Vella

15:01 Softball question from Andy Ellul to Muscat on the benefit of foresight – Muscat: “The benefit of this NAO report shows us the need for a greater change in public procurement, in which the private sector is brought in, to a greater extent for the provision and financing of certain infrastructure, especially within the framework of Malta’s continued relations with the EU. There is a new generation of skills that is required for such public-private partnerships.” Matthew Vella

14:59 While the PAC is plagued by some audio problems in this new committee room, Joseph Muscat's office is live-blogging its own statements on his Facebook profile. Matthew Vella

14:56 Labour MPs asking questions to Muscat over certain shortcomings identified by the NAO. Matthew Vella

14:52 Muscat says he himself was not consulted on the appointment of the members of the evaluation committee. Matthew Vella

14:50 Muscat insists that the appointments to the evaluation committees were not his choice. “I believe they were the decision of Enemalta and the energy ministry. Brian Tonna was part of a team of 30 people, which means it was not one person who could influence the entire opinion of this number of people. The NAO said in his report that irrespective of administrative shortcomings, the decision on the selection of the winning tenderer in this case would not have changed. If a minister appoints someone to an evaluation committee, who is competent, then I agree with such an appointment. The procedure of every government is that a minister has the right to appoint these people.” Matthew Vella

14:45 Muscat said the people appointed to the selection committee had to be people who approved of the government’s national policy to switch to gas. “A list of people were chosen because of their competence and belief in the government’s direction.” Matthew Vella

14:44 Carabott now quotes the Caruana Galizia public inquiry on the control of the government’s machinations by a “small clique” of power connected to Castille. “My reaction to the public inquiry has already been done and it is known. I have reservations on that conclusion – what you have read out just now, does not contradict what I have said. What the inquiry has produced is a subjective evaluation, which is no different in shape from the one-man decision-making of Richard Cachia Caruana before 2013. The NAO report itself has not concluded any external influence on the selection of Electrogas – I do not necessarily agree with the public inquiry’s conclusions, but this in itself does not lead to the fact that the selection of gas plant tender winner was mandated by this group.” Matthew Vella

14:40 Carabott asks Muscat whether he recommended anyone for the evaluation committees. No, he replies. Muscat denies any influence in whoever won the tender; he also says “no” when asked whether Keith Schembri or Konrad Mizzi had any role or influence in the winning the tender. Matthew Vella

14:39 Carabott quotes the NAO report, saying the procurement model chosen for the Delimara gas plant, was a political decision as state by the chair of the RFP evaluation committee. Muscat: “I think the NAO has to give context as to what selection he is referring to…. I imagine it was Enemalta together with the energy ministry. Ultimately, at a political level, means at leadership level of the entities involved in the issuance of the tender.” Matthew Vella

14:34 Muscat: “You’ve had countless of witnesses assisted by lawyers who spoke for them…” Matthew Vella

14:34 “We are not in some classroom here,” Muscat says. Carabott says: “It is the witness who has to answer.” Muscat replies: “Quote the Standing Order that does not allow my assistant to write a note for me.” Matthew Vella

14:33 Muscat asks Carabott whether the Standing Orders prohibit his assistant from writing a note for him to remind him of a speaking point. Matthew Vella

14:32 PAC chairman Darren Carabott takes issue with the fact that Mark Farrugia cannot pass a note to Muscat. Matthew Vella

14:29 MPs are debating the point as to whether an MOU signed between Labour and a private company, is subject matter for the PAC to dwell on. Matthew Vella

14:28 Muscat tells the PAC that what he said was his understanding was that representations of a consortium, could have been made to the NAO. He said the Labour Party was never under the NAO’s purview. Matthew Vella

14:26 PAC chairman makes reference to two documents that would have had to be submitted, as based on Joseph Muscat’s testimony last week: an MOU between the Labour Party and a private company called Energy World, and a consultation that had taken place with the European Commission on the exit of Gasol plc from the Electrogas consortium. While Joseph Muscat last week said that the NAO was aware of these documents, the Auditor General has informed the PAC that no such documents as to both these occasions were ever submitted to the NAO during its audit of the Electrogas contract. Matthew Vella

14:22 Joseph Muscat enters the committee room Matthew Vella

14:17 MPs currently are debating previous items from hearings, specifically on documentation that had to be presented by the permanent secretary to former energy minister Konrad Mizzi. Matthew Vella

14:12 Welcome to the live-blog. Matthew Vella